Shoot and Spend Tories
What is going on in Ontario? This week, Conservatives have criticized the government because 8 bikers got iced, but out of the other sides of their mouths say the Attorney General was wrong to approve a deal that paid out mafia millions to an innocent woman who was shot standing in a sandwich store during a botched mob hit. Where the hell do the blue meanies stand on crime? These fools are the remnants of the macho Harris-era party who paraded their tough on crime stance around Ontario like the Tiny Testicled chapter of the Travis Bickle fan club.What I hear them saying now is the Liberals must do more to protect the safety of bikers and let the mafia keep their blood money while they shoot innocent people. I dunno. You tell me. Does tough on crime mean that we should put a lot of black people in jail, but let bikers and mafioso shoot and spend as they wish?
Political grandstanding on the heels of human tragedies is a crime. The Tories should be paying restitution to every taxpayer who voted for them.
posted by K-Dough at 7:42 AM
41 Comments:
I think you're comparing apples and peaches.
The biker murders were well handled by the OPP and I applaud their quick reaction and arrests. Clearly our police are top-notch and deserve accolades and praise. I don't recall the opposition complaining about the murders or the subsequent arrests. Furthermore, what was the govn't to do? Have Monte Kwinter step into the middle of a biker slaying and requrest a discussion?
The Russo settlement is another matter completely and let me begin by saying I'm not a lawyer. Therefore I'll put my trust in the Crown Counsel who have arranged this settlement. The ruling is a little different and might become a precedent in future cases but I'm not necessarily opposed to it. Time in jail is cred to the underworld. Thus, often the only way to hurt them would be in their pocketbook. Yes, Ontario has the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board and the Office of Criminal Remedies for Illicit Activities, but I wouldn't want to be paralyzed for the rest of my life. If $2 million helps Mrs. Russo live somewhat better, then do it.
John Tory, immediately after hearing of the 8 murders, said it was the government's fault for not providing enough resources to the OPP.
I'm not opposed to the Russo settlement either. In fact, it's the opposite. Though I do think it sets a confusing precedent re: the ability for perps to pay.
What does John Tory expect more OPP officers would do with the biker slayings? Does he think 5 or 50 more officers would stop an INTERNAL massacre. If they want to kill their own, they're going to do it. The police can only do so much and, in this case, they might not wanted to have stopped them too badly.
John Tory is corporate dweeb, who is about as in touch with the common man and the street as Conrad Black.
I agree. Tory is out to lunch on this one. The OPP made 5 arrests in 48 hours. They had three of the victims under surveillance. Aside from following them into the house that was to be their doom... which they could not do because they had no cause... there was nothing that could be done. The OPP have the resources they need. Tory is desperate for some political points.
As a matter of fact, I'm not necessarily a Tory (party) supporter but John Tory has been quite fair and effective since being elected as party leader. I'm being fair and giving him a good approval (compared to many politicans these days)(read: Emerson).
In this case, however, I think he's wrong.
It's quite a stretch to think that the OPP could have done anything to stop those murders unless they'd been tipped off.
I am right to think that you are implying that because it was bikers that were murdered, it is less of a loss? Kind of like the hookers that were murdered out in Vancouver?
Great Blog K! That gum-flapping by John Tory was pathetic, especially after arrests were made almost immediately. When all that info came out about the surveillance and everything, I'm sure he wished he could turn back the clock and eat that sound-bite.
Even without all that great work by the RCMP, most of the public aren't too concerned about a bunch of bikers killing each other on a farm somewhere. Tory definitely went down a few notches in my books.
Pam:
No, not at all. I'm suggesting that an "internal cleansing" of drug-pushing, murdering bikers might not be completely horrible.
Comparing that to murdering prostitutes in Vancouver is as similar as Bob Marley & Oasis. I don't necessarily agree with prostitution but I'm not suggesting that they should get murdered.
Pam- I am not at all implying that bikers deserve to be murdered. In fact, I feel quite the contrary. I am, however, arguing against using a ridiculous argument like "the OPP need more resources (ie taxpayers' dollars) to prevent psycho losers from blowing away their friends" when the same psycho losers thrive in a culture that flaunts it's refusal to follow the law and lives off victimizing others.
You pays your money you takes your chances. Call it an occupational hazard. The families are the real victims.
More philosophically, I don't agree with the taking of anyone's life unless in self defence. Bikers is people too.
Bob Marley & Oasis?????????????????
peter,
My point was only that they are both murder victims. It is easily forgotten when the victims are hookers or bikes. Neither deserves to be murdered. What I've read recently makes me think this wasn't an "internal cleansing". It sounds like one crazy biker murdering 8 people. The MSM likes to put nice, neat labels on these types of crimes to make the public feel safer.
K-Dough,
Yes, you're right. I have sympathy for the families of the murdered.
It's ridiculous to think that they could have been prevented by spending more on the OPP.
And I would never compare Bob Marley to Oasis.
Take that back!
Methinks Mr. Cool is about to witness shit happening. He may hold sway out there in the country with his toys and hangers-on, but wait till he ends up in the joint, with inner city nutcases. An old, out of shape man like him is toast.
Of course all are presumed innocent before the law.
mark something,
Are you a "biker" biker, or do you dress like the leatherman from the Village People?
leather,
My husband has a bike and I just had a mental image of him trying to shoot me with a pellet gun. Now, that is funny.
Hey I have a bike too!
It's a 21 speed mountain bike... with a baby seat on the back.
But with all my tats, I look like a crazy mofo on it- esp. when my daughter is wearing her bandana, shades and pink bunny helmet!
Marksomething- who you try tryin' to kid about not being a gang member?
It's a well-known fact that you are a founding member of the Banana Splits!!!!! You and your punky monkey friends terrified our neighbourhood in the late 70s! We couldn't match your sleek banana-seated bikes with our flimsy low-riding big wheels!
Another worthless gang of punks.
I take back the comparison of Bob Marley vs. Oasis. I wasn't comparing the two, but more or less explaining how different they are.
I love them both.
I love myself.
you don't want anybody else
when you think about you
you touch yourself.
(1) More OPP resources and more crime-fighting ability for organized crime means we wouldn't have Bandidos shooting Bandidos in Ontario, because - theoretically - there wouldn't be Bandidos. That's how you prevent Bandidos shooting Bandidos en masse.
(2) The criticism is that the restitution for the victim comes in the form of a plea bargain with the jail sentence and it has, perhaps, the perception of being restitution in exchange for a reduced sentence. Both the NDP and Conservatives have this concern.
So, the Conservatives have a clear view on crime.
(1) Remove the ability for organized crime to operate in Ontario, vis a vis, increased OPP resources and the strong legal authority to crack down on organized crime.
(2) Remove the perception that criminals can reduce their sentence by paying restitution. Restitution should be paid, but not offered by the crooks (which is the perception).
Mark, my son would fall asleep with his dad on the bike when he was really small. He had a tiny helmet and sat in the front.I think the noise put him to sleep. Or maybe he was just bored.
I'm suddenly wondering how that was legal.
Jim- there is absolutely no evidence that there was any reduction of sentence involved. Are you questioning the altruism involved here?
If Conservatives are so tough on crime, and if it's merely an act of political will to get rid of organized crime- why didn't they do it under the toughest freakin' right wing government this province has ever seen from 1995-2002 under Harris?
I would suggest it's because they were all talk and no action. And because it's much more complicated dealing with these types of criminal elements than any of those simplistic tough guys would ever admit.
Jim:
Brilliant, I'm sure they've never considered the idea that more police will completely prevent any criminal activitiy from EVER taking place. Yes, 2,000 more police officers and I'm sure the Banditos, Hells Angels, Mafia, Crips, Bloods, etc. will just decide to leave.
Are you serious? Criminals are unfortunately here. Our battle is how to deal with them and punish them. Mark is right by suggesting it's through education but also through a tough courts system.
If simple police presence would prevent criminal activity, then why haven't previous govn't done it before now?
Actually Peter, there is absolutely no crime in police states. Everyone just gets along.
Jim- there is absolutely no evidence that there was any reduction of sentence involved. Are you questioning the altruism involved here?
I'm not questioning "altruism". I didn't say there was a reduction of a sentence in exchange for the restitution. I said there was a perception that that occured.
The perception must always be that the convicted are punished - either through restitution or through jail time (or a combination). In this case, there is a perception that the convicted offered restitution, as opposed to the victim being granted restitution for the suffering. Why is there this perception? Because the details of the restitution became public before the judgment was rendered.
Whether that's true or not, it shouldn't be left for individual opinions to decide. The public shouldn't be left scratching their head wondering who got justice.
Has nothing to do with being "tough or soft" on crime.
And, I'll reiterate - the Opposition in Ontario is unanimous in this - it's isn't just the Tories. The NDP is concerned as well.
If simple police presence would prevent criminal activity, then why haven't previous govn't done it before now?
I was attempting to correct K-Dough's assertion that John Tory was complaining that the murder wasn't prevented because of a lack of OPP resources. That's not true.
John Tory was complaining that there is a lack of legal authority to prosecute organized crime.
That's different.
So, in answer to your question - no, more police would not stop organized crime because there is no means to prosecute for being a member of criminal organization. Perhaps there is, but it isn't being enforced.
I'm not sure if free education would get rid of the Hells Angels, or whomever, but that's a different story.
Jim- I now understand your point re: justice being perceived to be done, and apologize for my knee- jerk I hate Harris reaction (although it helps to gratify my needs in any context!).
The idea always troubled me though. "Justice needs to be perceived to have been done". Strikes me as being semantically considerably different from the current catch words "transparency" and "acountability". Ironically, I believe they all tend to obscure the true function of law- which to me, is to reflect the constantly changing ideas of right and wrong that a society holds in a contextual and historical sense.
Optics are for scientists(and communicators).
K-Dough, many great people have been unable to understand the nature of conservatives although they do know that the cons do suffer from irrationality.
Joanne- not only great people. Many sub-great people as well.
Well, it's the long weekend and I am off to have a few with some SUB-great people. I think those are the only ones that will drink with me.
Cheers, Your Greatness
I, as well, am off to consume a few wobbly pops with some cretons who share a common stupidity with me.
Happy whatever you are celebrating this weekend- be you jew- be you freak or christian or all of the above.
And remember: gun play ruins it for the whole class.
K-Dough - Ontario politics? Booooooring.
John Tory? Booooooring.
Dalton? Boooooooring.
How many cokeheads are in opposition? None! Booorrring.
Anyone in your legislature want to start a new country and design a new flag? Nope. Boooooring.
At least in Alberta, they've got a leader who throws things at people during temper tantrums and gets pissed drunk.
Dalton drink? Never.
John Tory? Maybe sherry.
Chucker- I guess Harper's a real gag bag though eh? Especially after a 6 pack of Jolt Cola....
touche, K-Dough.
How exactly does Conservative policy run into this issue, when the entire system is still based on a Liberal justice system, held up from reform by a Liberal government. K, you better look into bill C-215, a conservative plan that actually deals with criminals, not hug them and put them straight back into the general public.
Chuckercanuck,
Out in Alberta people get drunk and throw punches too. Albertans smoke, chew snuff, spit on the ground, lick peach, fuck, play hockey, worship Gretz, kick frozen horseshit,eat BSE burgers,make shine,jacklite deer, bar-B-Q gophers, panfry snakes, skinnydip,ride bareback (horses, that is)and other normal things.
Dino- I dunno. You'd better ask John Q. Tory.....he is the one that has been spewing the bullshit party line all week.
And Squid- I must disagree. Albertans don't have time for pleasures of the flesh. They spend all their time counting their money.
old squid - FINALLY! I understand how I get papercuts on my ass! Mental note: switch to coins.
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